tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474822155726017607.post7271293864059034470..comments2023-04-03T18:40:42.735+09:00Comments on The Caffeinated Symposium: Retrospective: Tad Williams' MEMORY, SORROW, AND THORNDave Cesaranohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01454928720043301400noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474822155726017607.post-14986597698126791622014-11-10T19:23:15.106+09:002014-11-10T19:23:15.106+09:00It's been confirmed that Tad Williams is retur...It's been confirmed that Tad Williams is returning to Osten Ard with a trilogy sequel. See his official website for more info. The first book is mooted for publication in 2016.lancenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474822155726017607.post-51932483860865166342014-07-16T14:51:39.076+09:002014-07-16T14:51:39.076+09:00Good news! Williams will be returning to Osten Ard...Good news! Williams will be returning to Osten Ard, with new books, the first of which is scheduled to come out next year! :)<br /><br />I'm so, so happy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474822155726017607.post-67660241775875946442014-01-26T23:09:49.545+09:002014-01-26T23:09:49.545+09:00Great article!
You present plenty of good argumen...Great article!<br /><br />You present plenty of good arguments why this is an outstanding Fantasy series, including points and concepts I had not thought of myself.<br /><br />Now, I read this series back in 1996, when I was slightly less than half my current age, so quite some time has passed since. Certain details are a bit fuzzy in my memory, to say the least, but a surprising amount has actually stuck.<br />Williams is a bit of a slow narrator, with massive amounts of pages to set up his story (it happens in Otherland, too, of which I have only started the second book to date)*. That didn't always sit entirely well with me as a teenager. It wasn't a series for quick satisfaction. However, I am certainly not going to hold that against the series, especially since he does manage to paint a rather fascinating world. He does manage to avoid copying Tolkien, as you say.<br />The tone and atmosphere is fantastic on quite a few occasions. However, it is also dark, and sometimes depressingly pessimistic (and having a sad theme about loss, which you bring up, does not help). It never seems as if the heroes have much hope of winning. Of course, they would have if they knew that the prophesy of the swords saving them being false (just wait for Storm King's window of opportunity to return to pass, because he can't do it without the swords. That fake prophesy (the False Messenger) is the best idea in the series, in my opinion.<br /><br />However, for all the good points of this series, I can't claim it matches Tolkien. Not in my opinion. While imaginative, it feels like a slightly less carefully crafted world than Arda. Some things make just a little bit less sense.<br />The one thing that bothered me was Amerasu's seemingly total lack of any magical strength to defend herself. She is the mother of the Storm King, for crying out loud. She also comes off as totally defenseless against Ingen Jegger. Yes, I know it is partly explained; it strongly hinted that one has to be half mad and accept a rather extreme price to attain truly massive amounts of personal supernatural power in this world, and it may not be that magic is inherited. Still, the magical defenses around the Sithi home (forgot the name) seem very strong, and requires Utuk'ku to help them get through. Amerasu seems very scholarly, and she seems worried about her son's path, so why has she learned nothing to defend herself?<br />It seems analogous to if Sauron had one living family member left, and that person would have no more magical power to fend off an attacker than an average elf.<br />Again, Amerasu would not need to have magical powers on nearly her son's level, but putting her below Pryrates is pushing it (given who she is, she should probably be logically be magically stronger than that dark priest), in my opinion. I can't prove this as a plot hole, of course, but Amarasu's total lack of combat useful magic does feel slightly off (which means I buy it less), even taking into account all the explanations. Tolkien never really asks the reader to accept power gaps like this with vague explanations, and when I read Tolkien's backstory, I understand where Sauron's power comes from, and that part fits together better than this. Amerasu's failed resistance and death seems more plot demand driven than in-universe logic driven.<br /><br />Well, I suppose that is a minor nit pick, and I probably come off as pedantic and/or power obsessed for pointing it out.<br /><br />Sorry about the length of my post. And again, great review!<br /><br /><br />* The probable explanation why people put down Dragonbone Chair in the first 200 pages (when Wheel of Time gets away with a lot more "nothing" in the volumes in the middle of that series) is of course that they are not invested in the world yet. When Jordan gets to the slow storytelling parts, he has already set up his world, and many readers want to know what comes next. Nevertheless, I don't think Jordan entirely gets away with it, either, because I have heard of people putting down the series during those volumes.Darth Angelusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474822155726017607.post-27009364107245783172011-07-28T12:51:17.989+09:002011-07-28T12:51:17.989+09:00It's funny, the authors you name the "tru...It's funny, the authors you name the "true" successors of Tolkien are exactly the ones who didn't fall in for exact imitation. Perhaps it's best to say that these writers found their own voice and message, rather than try to replicate someone else's (and fail miserably at it in the process)?Michalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02198881279554204600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474822155726017607.post-366860337130080292011-07-21T15:06:57.727+09:002011-07-21T15:06:57.727+09:00Oh absolutely.
As much as I'd love to spend ...Oh absolutely. <br /><br />As much as I'd love to spend more time with the characters, no bones about it, I grew to love, in Osten Ard. I'd rather he not force himself to do it, not every series has to be have a sequel. <br /><br />But I've also not enjoyed William's other work nearly as much.. I'm now only about 400 pages from completing the Marchlands series.. and I still feel like I'm waiting for it to get going.Lagomorph Rexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06385231158384929598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474822155726017607.post-56952739040773847602011-07-20T22:30:36.793+09:002011-07-20T22:30:36.793+09:00I heard War of the Flowers wasn't all that goo...I heard War of the Flowers wasn't all that good, but this is coming from a person that enjoyed The Name of the Wind. I still have to read the link from Dave's previous post, but I know I wasn't much a fan of the writing style.<br /><br />As for Otherland, I got about halfway through it, but only stopped reading due to a variety of distractions. It was easier to read in College. However, the book series isn't really worse or better, as it is simply different. You can definitely tell it is written by the same author, but the very nature of the story is completely different to what is being told in Memory, Sorrow and Thorn.<br /><br />In truth, fans can be the worst thing to happen to an author. Feedback is good, but fans will want more of the same while wanting something different at the same time. It could be that Tad Williams doesn't have another story to tell in Osten Ard, which is completely fine. If one day he gets an idea on how to continue it, then sweet deal. But the worst "creativity" is forced creativity.<br /><br />In regards to the conclusion of Memory, Sorrow and Thorn, wasn't it that the magical McGuffins were actually a trap at the end? I might be thinking of something else, but I'm pretty sure getting all three swords together turned out to be a bad idea at the end that no one realized.Chris Cesaranohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08323588124740884590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474822155726017607.post-79036534840549064622011-07-19T00:47:19.260+09:002011-07-19T00:47:19.260+09:00I mean don't get me wrong.. it's not a bad...I mean don't get me wrong.. it's not a bad series.. but it's got sort of angsty semi-malevolent elves as the bad guys.. but really dosen't have any characters who are as strong as those from the earlier series. While at the same time having this constant looming threat of a semi-persio-arab race from the south coming to slay the infidel for not believing in their god king and may or may not be trying to bring back the old gods that the elves went to war with.. <br /><br /><br />I'm going to give War of the Flowers a read next.. I don't have Otherland yet.Lagomorph Rexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06385231158384929598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474822155726017607.post-30619934378227363812011-07-19T00:37:44.758+09:002011-07-19T00:37:44.758+09:00I won't argue that Williams' reluctance to...I won't argue that Williams' reluctance to continue writing about Osten Ard has led to a diminished popularity. I've not read <i>Otherland</i> but I heard that it got mixed reviews and many readers don't prefer it. As for the <i>Shadow</i> series, it is possible that Williams has just run out of stories to tell. Or, perhaps, he's trying to write more epic fantasy to please the publishers/readers. I dunno. I haven't read the <i>Shadow</i> series either.Dave Cesaranohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01454928720043301400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474822155726017607.post-53301209989331360822011-07-17T07:14:40.108+09:002011-07-17T07:14:40.108+09:00I would hazard a guess that the reason William'...I would hazard a guess that the reason William's work isn't more popular is precisely becuase he hasn't continued tales of Osten Ard. If you go to his website, there are dozens and dozens of threads asking why or when more will be forthcoming. <br /><br />He denied the masses what they wanted, and has been shunned as a result. <br /><br />I'm just about finished with his Shadow series.. and I really don't care for it nearly as much.. it just seems to much like a re-hash of Osten Ard.. to at the same time not be Osten Ard.Lagomorph Rexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06385231158384929598noreply@blogger.com