tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474822155726017607.post7089901051782031868..comments2023-04-03T18:40:42.735+09:00Comments on The Caffeinated Symposium: The State of Fantasy in 1977Dave Cesaranohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01454928720043301400noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474822155726017607.post-48799709719090013082015-10-29T02:34:03.344+09:002015-10-29T02:34:03.344+09:00you guys are leaving out one of the more important...you guys are leaving out one of the more important fantasy series here - The EarthSea books. Totally different than Tolkien. Superior in many ways.jon cobb 1971https://www.blogger.com/profile/15371715387331281779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474822155726017607.post-76715509475261892252015-08-13T01:45:02.523+09:002015-08-13T01:45:02.523+09:00I know I'm quite late to the game here, but I ...I know I'm quite late to the game here, but I must comment on a couple of things:<br /><br />First of all, the attitude expressed by Lagomorph Rex is, in my opinion, exactly why fantasy refused to grow for so many years and why brilliant authors like David Gemmell and Glen Cook weren't really celebrated until their definitive works were several years old.<br /><br />Throughout the 80's, we were subjected to a number of standard-issue fantasy fiction which, while few were the abject rip-offs that <i>The Sword of Shannara</i> was, nonetheless followed a certain mold and refused to break out of it. This is what gained fantasy much of its poor reputation.<br /><br />Rex seems to want more of this; for the genre to stay as it was when he was a boy and never grow beyond that. Assuming that's true, it is an attitude that I as a fantasy reader and hopeful some day fantasy author, simply cannot stomach.<br /><br />Let's point out what Simon said about recommending Tolkien's readers to <i>Circle of Light</i>. What he meant about that being a "portent of worse things to come", he was referring to the maddening tendency by fantasy publicists to place somewhere on the cover of their latest epic fantasy some quote that seems to suggest the novel can be compared to <i>The Lord of the Rings</i>. Every WOT novel once had the inane quote "Jordan has begun to dominate the world that Tolkien began to reveal" plastered on the cover. Authors as diverse as David Gemmell, George RR Martin and Scott Lynch have all been compared to Tolkien, usually by way of praise. "The greatest epic fantasy since <i>The Lord of the Rings</i>!" "(Author) has the same sort of epic storytelling capability of Tolkien", etc.<br /><br />I don't want to read the new Tolkien. I don't want to read another Eddings. I don't want to read the spiritual successor to Donaldson. I want to read the next (name of author). Just as I don't want musicians I enjoy constantly compared to the Beatles (and they never are), I don't want to read Abercrombie or Lawrence or Brett and feel like they've got to be conforming to some mold set down by an author before them.<br /><br />I also can't agree that fantasy, now or in 2011, was stuck in a "perilous and shabby condition", but instead it seemed then, and seems now, to be thriving, and finally throwing off the impression that it's for kids, or too silly for mature readers, or "it's all the same".<br /><br />Fantasy has had really three main "booms", in my opinion. The first, and most obvious, was the late 70's boom that Simon talks about. The second I think happened in the early 90's, when Robert Jordan's WOT books really took off and helped draw attention to other "fat fantasy" epics and finally the third boom (so far) was in the mid 2000's when ASOIAF became the new standard by which new fantasy authors were judged and a new era of low-fantasy, magic-lite, character-driven, gritty-and-grim novels began. Many hated these novels and loathed their success. I firmly believe that they are the future, or at least will prepare the way for the next boom that keeps fantasy alive, and to discount their impact is foolhardy.WriterJoshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08297293527408652148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474822155726017607.post-38117519935131074352011-07-16T11:09:09.809+09:002011-07-16T11:09:09.809+09:00I wasn't much of a reader until the end of yea...I wasn't much of a reader until the end of year 5 at school. We were tasked with picking a book for the summer and then turning in a book report on it in septembe. For whatever reason I chose the fattest book on the table. It was called the Hobbit, and had a Black cover with a short fat guy being menaced by a glowing eyed creature. I read that book 10 times over the following 3 months, and turned in a 14 page (the requirement was 2) book report on it. I got an A+. I've been trying to recapture that feeling reading the Hobbit for the first time ever sense. <br /><br />I'm exactly the demographic that these publishers were trying to get when they put out stuff like Brooks and Eddings. <br /><br />I enjoy some of them.. but I think I'm more interested in the Idea of them. Because I certainly can agree there is a large amount of hamhandedness in the process of doing it. It's a dangerous business really. I've either got to put up with subpar writing.. or try to struggle through stories I don't particularly like. I think its probably because the more "Literary" influences an author has.. the less likely they are to write the sort of stories I want to read.Lagomorph Rexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06385231158384929598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474822155726017607.post-29944349564893738422011-07-15T07:36:48.694+09:002011-07-15T07:36:48.694+09:00So, I assume you prefer the Tolkien imitations? T...So, I assume you prefer the Tolkien imitations? That sounds accusational, but it's not meant to be. I can perfectly understand it.<br /><br />I can see how authors like Martin and Bakker are not for everybody. What I've heard about some other authors is pretty rough and there was a lot of debate a few months ago (as I'm sure you're aware) in places like <i>The Black Gate</i> and Brian Murphy's blog.<br /><br />Tom Simon's problem (and mine) isn't so much as the imitation of Tolkien, but the <i>ineptitude</i> that his imitators display. They take the elements of his story but none of his technique, style, or poetic language.Dave Cesaranohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01454928720043301400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-474822155726017607.post-56802714500828071492011-07-14T14:32:48.944+09:002011-07-14T14:32:48.944+09:00See my view is, that in the last 5 years or so cer...See my view is, that in the last 5 years or so certain authors have decided to drag the Fantasy Genre into the midden. Bloody it's nose and then proceed to bugger it senseless. <br /><br />So in that respect I suppose no, i can't agree with your core theme. I feel it's in a shabby and perilous condition because of some of the authors you mentioned at the end of the post, rather than the beginning.Lagomorph Rexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06385231158384929598noreply@blogger.com